Douyin vs TikTok – What can we expect to see coming to TikTok based on China's Douyin version

We talked with  founder, Erica Yang of Real Hype Creative. Erica Yang,  is an expert of Chinese social media and is bringing her expertise to the US market to develop and expand brands on a global scale with influencer marketing. Her clients include brands of the top tier celebrities such as Steve Aoki, Akon, Maggie Q, G-Easy, just to name a few. And we're gonna dive in and talk about how Erica and Real Hype Creative are doing some really fun things in the cutting edge technology and what we can expect to see over on the TikTok app based on China's Douyin app that is years ahead of the US TikTok app.

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Transcript

Kyle Kaplanis: 0:00

Hey everyone. Welcome back to another episode of BizTok for TikTok. I have a very, very special guests in the studio today from Real Hype Creative. Now, Real Hype Creative is an agency who is distributing the world of influencer marketing, everybody who listens to the show knows that's my favorite thing to talk about. Real Hype Creative is led by Erica Yang, who is an expert of Chinese social media and is bringing that to the US market to develop and expand brands on a global scale. Her clients include brands of the top tier celebrities such as Steve Aoki, Akon, Maggie Q, G-Easy, just to name a few. And we're gonna dive in and talk about how Erica and Real Hype Creative are doing some really fun things in the cutting edge technology from Web three NFTs, virtual influencers, and just talking about creators as a whole. Also, along with Erica, we have Adrian, who is their head of marketing, joining in on the conversation. So Erica and Adrian, welcome to BizTok for TikTok.

Adrian: 1:00

Oh, welcome. Thank you.

Erica Yang: 1:01

Welcome. It's very nice to be here.

Adrian: 1:03

Thank you for having us.

Kyle Kaplanis: 1:05

So before we dive in, and talk about these things, I would love to know, backstory, Erica of you, and maybe a little backstory, orgin story of Real Hype Creative. Talk to me more about that.

Erica Yang: 1:15

Sounds good. I actually born and raised in China. My original background was a civil engineer. For some reason I just love Wall Street. So I moved to Wall Street. I was a financial, expert investment banker for a while.

Kyle Kaplanis: 1:29

Oh Wow.

Erica Yang: 1:29

And then it comes to the hype of all of a sudden, when you're working finance and TV in film industry has such huge, hype. And a lot of Chinese companies start coming to United States and to acquire, like Wanda bought AMC

Kyle Kaplanis: 1:43

mm-hmm.

Erica Yang: 1:43

So at that time I shipped to TV and film industry. I had a company, we start buying Hollywood movies and doing distribution in China. And then doing that for a few years. And, Pandemic hits and that create something more online and that's the time and Douyin is the sister company in China is already doing huge in the e-commerce space. I created that company literally like two and a half years ago.

Kyle Kaplanis: 2:09

Oh wow.

Erica Yang: 2:09

Through the Pandemic with that, creating short video content.

Kyle Kaplanis: 2:14

That's incredible. And Douyin, everybody who knows the sister company did TikTok also aka Byte Dance, here in the United States. What's interesting and what I've hear from a lot of people is that the Chinese app, Douyin is I'd say more advanced or more ahead of the game that's happening here in the US. Is that correct?

Erica Yang: 2:32

Absolutely. Yeah, that's what I was saying, it's do 1% of us already done over there, in terms of short video markets, in terms of live streaming and this be a hugely beneficial over here as well.

Kyle Kaplanis: 2:49

Exactly. So you have a lot of experience. You're living what the future looks like in a way. So you're already positioning, I'm sure, creators that you're working with or partners on understanding where the future is going because they are ahead and you have that experience to bring over here and start getting prepared. With that knowledge and that experience, what are you doing at Real Hype that is, helping lead with that experience right now?

Erica Yang: 3:12

One of the things that we start helping a lot of brands and help them navigate the marketing on TikTok, how do we create the best brand awareness and also generate conversion rate for the brands at the same time with the lowest cost rate possible. TikTok, as you know, the rhythm is a lot faster, so the results is almost like instant. That's what we are focusing on is helping brands and on TikTok specifically.

Kyle Kaplanis: 3:41

TikTok has been around now, I believe it's four years. They launched from musically to TikTok in August, 2018. So it's been, four years in the making. But yet still brands are having a hard time understanding this new focus of short form content. Some of them , are still focused really heavily on ad. Whereas I love TikTok slogan if make TikTok not ads. Are you helping these brands understand that aspect that it needs to be more creative and authentic and share these creators voices? And what's your feedback from some of the brands you've worked with?

Erica Yang: 4:10

Definitely more authentic and also, you know the brands. You don't understand the rhythm of the TikTok, and understand how the algorithm works and how to read the data. So create more data driven type content. Also in China, what has been done a lot is we call a matrix account. So when you help brands and you actually create multiple accounts for different specific goals and then all share with the same goal.

Kyle Kaplanis: 4:36

Oh,

Erica Yang: 4:37

Yeah.

Kyle Kaplanis: 4:38

Okay, so a matrix account. That's really cool. I would love for you to dumb that down for me. If I'm a five year old sitting here, you said that a matrix account is creating different goals for the same company, but having multiple accounts, what does that look like? Elaborate more on that.

Erica Yang: 4:52

I'll use an example, you normally create a lot of different accounts, have a lot of different purpose.

Kyle Kaplanis: 4:57

Mm-hmm.

Erica Yang: 4:58

And some accounts are, main accounts you focus on the brand awareness. Yep. Then you create an account to talk about the functionality of your product, right?

Kyle Kaplanis: 5:05

Mm-hmm

Erica Yang: 5:05

if it's fashion, you show them the factory, show that fabrics, and you show the sustainability story. Also, some account you create to focus on, live streaming, generate conversion rate. And then you generate certain accounts more focused on the user testimony and all of them would interact with each other, create like a much bigger impact.

Kyle Kaplanis: 5:26

I love that. That's really cool. So do you think these matrix accounts that are happening over in China that are successful, should we expect to see that over on TikTok coming in the US market? Do you think more companies are gonna jump onto that?

Erica Yang: 5:38

Oh, absolutely. Yeah. It's a very well proven business model out there.. Yeah. Even for the same company, you can create different characters that could be at different accounts. There's not a set rule how your major account should look like. You could have ones like comedy. One is focused on knowledge,

Kyle Kaplanis: 5:57

Right!

Erica Yang: 5:57

But all accounts, it really depends on how your narrative is and what kind of script you are doing. They work really well, especially, you are posting on multiple accounts and on a schedule, and they really do much better than one single account.

Kyle Kaplanis: 6:11

I think that's really smart because as a consumer, there are parts of businesses that, we interact with that we might enjoy more. So maybe like me, I could care less about how a company's working on the back end. I'm just really care about what products are out there, what do they have to say. Whereas somebody else might be like, I wanna see this company using all this in a comedy way. What are the funny things that this company's doing? And then maybe from a marketing perspective, I like to know the BTS what's happening at the business, What are the fabrics that these fashion companies are using? So that way you're not overloaded by content you're not really interested in, but you can go and plug away and find all the style that you are. I think that's really cool. And right now in the US market, a lot of companies are just sticking with their one channel. And it is funny cuz you do go to them and you do see a mix of everything and it can be a little bit confusing when you're going through and trying to figure out what content is what. I think that's a smart move. Is there any other things that people could be expecting to see in the future. Where do you see TikTok evolving to, from your own experience? What are some things that you think are coming?

Erica Yang: 7:15

The content is gonna become much more premium. So that's what you say in China, it's much more competitive. A lot of big influencer here they have an entourage, but when it comes to the content creation, probably one person that's a creator, then you have a videographer. You may have an editor. In China almost comes to a space that in order for your content really stand out. You probably have one creator. You have an eight to 10 people team to just help you to do much more premium content and to script a show, like a sitcom or a Chinese version, Dr. Phil. Content so much more interesting, but also at the same time, it's short, it's fast paced, it's really catered to people nowadays have a very limited attention span. Tell a story would be, sometimes you wake up and you go to the bathroom,

it's 2: 8:04

00 AM in the morning you automatically you grab your phone, you turn the TikTok on, and start swiping.

Kyle Kaplanis: 8:10

Yep.

Erica Yang: 8:10

Then you somehow feel mentally you wanted to read a chicken soup kind of a deal,

Kyle Kaplanis: 8:15

Right.

Erica Yang: 8:16

So theres, Dr. Phil type of show come up with less than 30 seconds tell you something, make you really feel good. And then on bottom that there's 20 episodes. You click on that. So there's all this like a very short, minute long show you really enjoy watching. And next it's already 5:00 AM in the morning. It's kinda addicting. Yes. And then what the app in China does really well there's different books that, because you watch this show, you might like this book and you might always check this book and they start selling you like 20 different books and it's like a dollar and then it's one click away. So you don't realize in middle of night you are making them $20 purchase.. Kyle Kaplanis: That's hilarious. We've been doing that our whole life, regardless of what people say. In the US specifically, late night television used to put on, these advertisement channels that would try to sell, products like this cookware set, right?

It'd be 2: 9:06

00 AM and people would be buying things just watching the tv. And I feel like that's where we are going with social media is we're always gonna be one click away from the next thing that we see to be able to purchase. And some people might be fearful of that, but to me, I like ease of use. Anything I can do quickly what I see and I wanna buy something, I want to be quickly. And I do agree with you, but you made a really good point about creators having teams, and this is what I'm seeing. The pandemic really spiked the creator base on TikTok and did make it a lot more competitive for creators who are already existing. And what I've noticed is that the creators who are not evolving to either step up their game or have more high quality. Authenticity still wins, but having a little bit more high quality or, being able to deliver more styles of content than what they're already currently doing. Those creators are struggling right now that don't have their team behind them, that don't have resources, and the creators that do are focused on building this as a business versus just, a content creator like you are a business. And having those teams, those ones are leading and I think we'll have longevity on this app. And right now, It's back to an even playing field. There's new creators that could come in that have the support system and kick it off and they could, be elite running in the space. But I do agree that's where creators are struggling right now, is just those that don't have a team or don't have a plan for the future of their content. Have you been seeing that as well?

Erica Yang: 10:28

Oh yeah. Quite a lot. That's why we, as an agency, we also support a lot of creators

Kyle Kaplanis: 10:34

Right.

Erica Yang: 10:34

We help them with content strategy. We write scripts for them, we shoot content. We help with posting. So we help them strategically a lot. That's why, agency exists, and you sign creators, you help them with that perspective.

Kyle Kaplanis: 10:47

Exactly. Coming up with different programs, like we do the same thing for our creators is seeing where the market is and seeing where our creators can create different styles of content or programs that could, appease where the market is going. It is really important , and I do feel for those creators out there that they're on their own. I'm fearful for them that, they don't have long left if they don't figure out how to partner up with agencies who could help them develop that. It's very interesting to see, platforms competing as well. We're in a really crazy spot with the creator economy right now with social platforms competing for, who's the best and then creators in this new era where they have to step up their game. Very interesting to see what's gonna happen in the next, year, where this is going. What's your agency planning? How are you planning to keep up with this? What are your goals right now and how do you think you guys will look in the next year.

Erica Yang: 11:35

As an agency right now, we serving two type of clients. One is, celebrities. They have the needs of creating TikTok and for different type of reasons.

Kyle Kaplanis: 11:45

Yep.

Erica Yang: 11:45

And we help them to write scripts and post, do all that type of services for them. A lot of Hollywood celebrities and we help them to create a very localized content towards the Chinese market cuz they already have fame over there, have a big influence. And we just make that bigger social presence for them in China. Then we also serve brands and a goal right now is we are helping a lot of brands and we try to scale our business next year, hopefully can serve over a hundred brands that's in the smaller brands.

Kyle Kaplanis: 12:19

Mm-hmm.

Erica Yang: 12:20

That can not afford bigger check. And we creating our own SaaS system to have them do in a more affordable rate, but in a much larger scale. That's one of our, projection for the next year. Then on top of that, China's a famous for its supply chain.

Kyle Kaplanis: 12:37

Mm-hmm.

Erica Yang: 12:37

So we work with manufacturers and suppliers. We also help specific celebrities and creators to create a brands for them.

Kyle Kaplanis: 12:47

Yep.

Erica Yang: 12:47

That's what we are doing. We also work with, Alibaba. Byte Dance, who's also our investor.

Kyle Kaplanis: 12:53

Yep.

Erica Yang: 12:53

So we're working with them on a much larger scale. For example, as Alibaba, they have Alibaba for business and we just help a lot of smaller business create accounts and content for the US market. Help them have a much larger reach.

Kyle Kaplanis: 13:06

I love that. It sounds like you have a really good idea of where you're going, and I love that you're focusing on celebrities. Helping them, get on TikTok. Because it is funny how the world is working and that traditional Hollywood is different now, right? You have to be where the people are and these celebrities are realizing, okay, I gotta be on TikTok now to keep my relevancy. Keep my, fans engaged and keep people in the loop. But also I love that you mentioned that you're planning on working with small businesses, because right now I think TikTok is king for them. I've talked to many small businesses on my show and that they're getting so much success just by sharing their content over on TikTok and, in a fun short form style. Again, a lot of them don't know how to use it, right? Like they just don't know where to start and they don't end up getting started where they're missing a ton on the table if they don't get started. So I think it's really important that you're looking to help them with that so that way they can get started today versus waiting and hoping that their business scales and they have more money and resources to invest. So I love that you're focused on the future of those companies, which is really cool. I'd love to know too, is there any differences between, Chinese platform and the US, in terms of algorithm or how it works and is Douyin, more of a search capacity? Cause I see TikTok moving into that space as well. Is the Douyin app used a lot for like search and finding things?

Erica Yang: 14:25

Oh yeah, absolutely. I think for multiple reasons, right? In China they have more data. Much more access to much more granular data access. Which really help with the search engine. Douyin almost act like you can replace Yelp, you can replace Open Table.

Kyle Kaplanis: 14:44

Right.

Erica Yang: 14:45

So in China people look for restaurants or booking restaurant on Douyin instead of Open Table Yelp, and people go to places like Travel Advice and all of that because they have that particular premium TikTok version and discovery show.

Kyle Kaplanis: 15:01

Mm.

Erica Yang: 15:01

Shot by the travel influencer is so much more intriguing and interesting.

Kyle Kaplanis: 15:06

Google right now is still very text based. Yes, you can find videos, you can images, but it's still very text based and sends you to websites to read. Whereas Gen Z and the younger audiences are very visual learners. I see TikTok as being a visual video, Google, and I see them moving into that direction, which is very important for marketers or businesses to hear because using SEO right now, figuring out what are the hot key words on Google. But using that to make video content strategy, I think is really where a lot of businesses could be taking and running with that now, as TikTok moved into more of an SEO style. And you could be ahead of the game, and that's happening quickly. I swear TikTok every day is advanced another year. You could be left behind so quickly if you're not keeping up. That's why I love this podcast to help people keep up to date with anything that's going on.

Erica Yang: 15:54

Because the search functions so much stronger out there, and then also because it's so much more algorithm driven. Algorithm is better because you have many years of data accumulation. So when you have that put not only your search, right, everything's being already based upon how you search and based upon all your past behavior and algorithm knows you so much better. They're gonna push you more specific content you really like.

Kyle Kaplanis: 16:19

Right.

Erica Yang: 16:20

So to a point that not only they can send you the content you like, they actually predict what content you going to. Like they, Oh, what's your interest based upon what you have done in the past and based upon the big data. What are other people like you? What are they watching? So you may also like this, right, based upon your view history, how long you spend on a particular video. It's just really powerful.

Kyle Kaplanis: 16:44

It's very powerful. We joke about this all the time that they're living in the future because the content that's I'm served a lot of times, maybe never seen a specific style or a person or what's happening in the video, but they already know that I'm gonna love it and then I do. And then I'm hooked on that. And the same thing keeps happening and that's why TikTok they're number one with keeping people on the app the longest. And it's because of that algorithm is so powerful and I'm all for it. A lot of people get scared away because of the data, but to me, at the end of the day, I want all my stuff simple, I don't want to go searching for things anymore. I like things quickly. I'm a busy guy, right. I run a podcast. I run a full agency in LA. I'm doing all this things, so I need things quickly, and I think there's a lot of us out there that prefer it. I wanna see things that I like. I don't wanna be stuck scrolling all day trying to find the next content that I actually enjoy, whereas that's how I feel like the other platforms are. You might find some things, but it's saturated with a lot of content you actually don't enjoy. So they were really, really smart on developing that. And no matter how many copycats are there of these platforms, that's the one thing that nobody has even come close to copying. As of right now. We'll see how the platform wars continue and see where that goes. But Erica, I would love to ask you cause I do have a mix of people listening to this podcast from brands to marketers, but then I also have people that are in the creator space that are, Okay, I wanna be a better creator. From your experience, what are some tips that you could share, If there's a creator listening right now, what are things that they could be focused on right now to be a better creator?

Erica Yang: 18:14

I think the basic thing is always know how algorithm works and, listening, like what's hot. One thing is you gotta have a very stable consistent posting.

Kyle Kaplanis: 18:27

Yep.

Erica Yang: 18:27

Also you gotta make sure algorithm really knows who you are.

Kyle Kaplanis: 18:31

Mm-hmm.

Erica Yang: 18:32

So that's one most important thing. You can't create account and one day I'm posting food, and another day I'm posting traveling. The algorithm is confused as a person who you really are. So they don't know how to push you to what type of people.

Kyle Kaplanis: 18:45

Mm-hmm.

Erica Yang: 18:46

So you always be very consistent of who you are. Make sure the algorithm knows who you are. That's number one thing. And number two is of course you gotta do very good quality of consistent stable posting.

Kyle Kaplanis: 18:59

Mm-hmm.

Erica Yang: 18:59

And number three is, of course, you gotta understand all the different type of hashtags and hashtag challenge and join the different type of hot topic challenge.

Kyle Kaplanis: 19:08

Mm-hmm.

Erica Yang: 19:08

And working with the platform that would help you with a lot of traffic. Another thing that has been done in China a lot, I don't see has been done a lot here, is the collaboration among creators together. And also collaboration among celebrities and creator together.

Kyle Kaplanis: 19:26

Right.

Erica Yang: 19:26

That would bring you much bigger traffic.

Kyle Kaplanis: 19:29

Yes.

Erica Yang: 19:30

What happened is, we have a certain goal, that's what we are actually doing right now. We have done a case for Akon, with another big influencer. We did a rap challenge.

Kyle Kaplanis: 19:39

Okay.

Erica Yang: 19:40

So we have a celebrity, a creator, we launching beats and then we invite 20 other influencers. We all working towards the same goal and it's the same hashtag and it helps everybody. Influencer gets more followers and different type of audience and get to collaborate with celebrity with their music. And the celebrity gets more following different type of popularity and whatever they're trying to promote.

Kyle Kaplanis: 20:03

Exactly. Akon is a great example because my generation, Akon was a legend, but to me that's who I was listening to. Whereas today, maybe Gen Z is I think I've heard of an Akon song, but as Akon is working with these new creators of this generation, that generation is now being introduced to Akon in their way. Where he's gonna continue on his relevancy. It's fun how Gen Z is really open to listening to a lot of older generational music. Which we see it all the time. There's a lot of craters that do have multiple niches that they love to talk about. Instead of confusing the algorithm, maybe they can try this matrix style for their own selves. Let's say me, travel with Kyle. Cooking with Kyle. So I have two different channels, but then it's not confusing where people are like, Why am I seeing a travel video when I see you cooking all the time? Right. Is that something that you think that could benefit?

Erica Yang: 20:48

Oh, absolutely. Yeah. You just have to create like a certain style that the algorithm slowly knows you. And then that's why we were saying anytime you start a new account, the first five videos are so important and then the algorithm tag you to some type of accounts and then it's hard to untag yourself out of it.

Kyle Kaplanis: 21:08

Yep. I'm not sure if you've heard of the creator, Law by Mike, he's a lawyer and he's very popular. His strategy was that he started his account with five videos that he knew would be viral before launching. They tested a few things under some smaller accounts before they launched their main account. They did a lot of research first on what do people like to see? Do they like to see transitions? Do they like quick facts? And they researched all that before launching their account, and I think that's a huge testament to why they're so successful today versus just starting out small, or not with a big bang. Which takes a long time to grow cuz the algorithm's confused. Whereas like you give him something strong off the bat, the algorithm's like, Whoa, this was great content. Let's go, let's go. Then he continued to be, consistent on top of that, which has led him to over 8 million followers now as a lawyer, which is super cool. But a lot of people are lazy, Erica, me, and you could sit down and give people a total checklist to have success. And I'd say 1% of people will actually listen to us. The rest of 'em will think that they know the answers, even though they're asking for help. I see that a lot. So that's why the competition is gonna be very hard right now, but those that follow it and are willing to put in the work. And put in the research and put in the time will succeed. And there's a lot of craters that are just really lazy right now and are not willing to put in the full effort. And those craters, I feel are gonna be left behind if they don't step up their game. We're seeing it now, creators are complaining that their reach is dying. They're not getting as many views, but then they're not consistent. They went from posting five days a week, but now they're making money and they're posting one day a week. And it's confusing. The algorithms like, you're not making enough content for us to show to new audiences. You have to keep consistent or we're just not gonna show your stuff.

Erica Yang: 22:50

Yeah, absolutely. One of the tips we have is say if you are a makeup influencer or whatever the influencer decided to be, you always open a small new account. You only follow those really good makeup influencer. And then you only follow those. So every day you open it up consistently, the algorithm only shows you those videos so you know what video's been pushing to you, what's a really good video. Give you an example for you to learn how to make the type of makeup videos.

Kyle Kaplanis: 23:21

I tell that all the time because on TikTok, I believe you can have five accounts where you can switch between, And I tell people, whatever your industry is, create an account where you only engage with that content. But sometimes it's hard cuz it can throw in something and then you're like it, and then all of a sudden you screw up your algorithm over there. So I'm like, But I'm like, only search for that style content and only engage with that so that way you're always reminded in seeing what works. So if a video pops up in your industry that has, a million likes, you're like, Whoa, what did they do that got that? You can learn from that video to say, Oh, maybe it was because that hook was so strong and then they finished with a really cool product review or whatever at the end. That blueprint obviously worked, so let me try that for my own. And chances are, it will work for you as well, depending, if you follow that style. Where a lot of people, are just trying to create all kinds of stuff without doing a lot of research or putting in the effort to understand what is working on the app. I have a creator, Alex Stemp, he's one of the top photographers on the app. He's got over 20 million and that is what he does and where his success comes from is cuz he's very focused on not caring what people are doing, but where content is going and how he's able to research that and knowing what's coming next to develop his content style. That's why he is having so much success. He's very analytical. And that has helped him a lot. His very analytical brain understands algorithm, understands that concept, which is really smart where a lot of creators don't. They're very artistic, so they don't grasp that part of it where that's why a team is very helpful. So you have some analytical people on your team that can help you better understand that as an artistic mindset. Erica, we're coming to an end here and we're wrapping this up, but I'm sure there's gonna be a lot of people very interested to learn more about you, about your agency. So I'd love for you to take this time right now to plug yourself, your agency, where people can find you and how they can connect,

Adrian: 25:08

People can find us at realhypecreative.com. That's our website. We're also here in Los Angeles, so if you guys are creators, contact us. Our Instagram is Real Hype Creative. We're doing a lot of cool stuff. We're working with a lot of brands. We're with a lot of influencers. And if you guys are in Los Angeles too, please contact us. We do a lot of influencer events. We like to build our community up and help other people grow. Whether brands, influencers, celebrities, we're all about helping other people, other creators and everything.

Kyle Kaplanis: 25:39

Awesome. Everybody listening, I made this very easy for you, go to the description notes. I have all the links to find Real Hype. The agency links to Erica, links to all their social channels so you can connect with them very, very easily. Just click the description notes in this podcast and you'll be able to find that. Erica. Adrian, thank you so much for your time and I appreciate you being on the BizTok for TikTok podcast.

Adrian: 26:02

Thank you so much for having us.

Erica Yang: 26:04

Thank you so much.